Welcome to Disagreement Without Being Disagreeable. This blog is run by Brian Bates and Everett Vandagriff and is primarily intended to be a source for intelligent and courteous political debate. Brian will put forth the liberal point of view, while Everett advances the conservative viewpoint. We're honored that you're taking the time to look at what we've written and hope you find your visit worthwhile.
Thursday, June 30, 2005
Tuesday, June 28, 2005
It's Constitutional, Isn't It?
Who'll Step Down
Whoever steps down, the upcoming confirmation battles should be fascinating to watch. Personally, I'd love to see the president nominate Miguel Estrada to fill the vacancy, but I don't think it'll happen. It's a shame, really. After having his name dragged through the mud for over two years, he'd decided he had better things to do and withdrew himself from consideration. If he hadn't, I suspect he would have gone through in the great cop-out of '05 by a certain group of 14 senators who claim to value collegiality over all else, even if they really did it for the good publicity. Of course, that's not entirely fair to Mike DeWine and Lindsey Graham, who reportedly pushed the deal through on orders from Bill Frist because they weren't sure how Specter was going to vote.
Re: Dem Unity
Who will liberals look to as their intellectual forbears and why? Where is their answer to the likes of National Review, The New Criterion, The Public Interest, etc.? These are questions that cannot be answered by the leaders of the Democrat party; they have to be taken up by prominent intellectual figures within the liberal movement and debated in view of those who form the base of the liberal movement. Focusing on electoral success and policy intitiatives over underlying principles and philosophy is putting the cart before the horse. The two major problems facing Democrats and the liberal movement in general are the suddenness with which they've lost most of their political power and the fact that much of liberal academia is mired in post-modernism. Who will rise up to save liberalism from itself before it's too late? As an outsider, I really can't say. I know Peter Beinart of The New Republic is trying, but it remains to be seen whether anyone will take him seriously.
Monday, June 27, 2005
Brian, Brian, Brian
Of course, I think our actual positions on Rove's comments may be closer than our posts so far have made them out to be. Personally, I hope Rove's comments were wrong, but I don't know that I can say that they are. Ultimately, they need to be proven wrong, not simply shouted down with claims of "He's questioning my patriotism!" This shouldn't be difficult to do. All it would take would be for a few prominent Democrats/liberals to come out and say "Michael Moore/Moveon.org/Jimmy Carter/whoever does not speak for me or for my party. Their views do not represent the views of Democrats/liberals, and we refuse to be lumped together with them. Furthermore, we find Karl Rove's comments repugnant and demand their retraction." However, the Democrats are so interested in presenting a united front that they are unwilling to show any sort of disunity for any reason whatsoever. As a result, the views of the lunatic fringe of the Democratic party are seen to be held throughout the party, making them seem week when it comes to national security issues, irrespective of whether or not you take Rove's comments to be a substantive policy criticism or an uncalled-for ad hominem attack on the patriotism of Democrats.
One thing that should be obvious, and I think you'll agree, is that the fact we're having this debate shows that the portion of Rove's statement you quoted is inaccurate. It is legitimate, I think, to read that statement as calling the patriotism of liberals/Democrats into question, but I don't see that it necessarily has to be read that way. It could very well be that Seantor Durbin and the like honestly feel that American involvement in Iraq is is a mistake and that anything that will bring that involvement to an end sooner rather than later is a good thing. It is also possible that certain leaders within the Democratic party equate the country's good with the success of their own party, and thus anything that advances their own political ends is good for the country. It could also be that they're motivated simply by a hatred of Bush and an overwhelming desire to undermine him, no matter what the cost. There are all sorts of motives that could be imputed to those who oppose what's going on in Iraq, Gitmo, etc., but it's foolish to go into them because when it's all said and done, results matter more than motives. Republicans forgot this when Clinton was president, and the Democrats seem to have forgotten this under Bush.
Saturday, June 25, 2005
And Another Thing
Ultimately, the Democrats need to get away from concentrating on good intentions and right gestures as a policy guide and focus on good results. If they don't, they will continue to marginalize themselves even if they regain power at somepoint in the future. For an example of why this is so, see Mark Steyn's piece in this week's Spectator.
A Clever Idea
Jonah,
The quickest way to reverse Kelo is to find some
conservative town in Utah somewhere to shut down an abortion clinic in order to
make room for a Wal-Mart. Also, that would be the most fun way to get Kelo
reversed.
A Point of Semantics
Karl Rove Is a Genius
Frankly, I don't think he should have back-tracked simply because people were angered by his comments. He provided sufficient context for them to be defensible, and he should have only backed down if proven wrong. This is the difference between what Rove said and the comments of Dean and Durbin. Where Dean's and Durbin's comments were absurd on their face, Rove's require a substantive rebuttal, and as long as Democrats simply continue to complain about them and demand their retraction, Republicans and conservatives can throw back all of the comments made by their number that have gone unrepudiated. NPR's Mara Liasson was smart enough to realize this when she made the comment on "Special Report with Brit Hume" that if we're going to hold Howard Dean to account for making insulting and ridiculous statements, we should do the same for Rove.
Friday, June 24, 2005
This May Stoke Some Argument
Here's what I want to know. In the aftermath of 9/11, the CIA and FBI came under significant criticism for ignoring information that could have fleshed out the 9/11 plot. When no WMD were found to be in Iraq, the CIA took heat for not considering alternatives and for being guilty of group-think. Both of these criticisms were entirely justified. However, John Bolton is now being opposed on the grounds that he is looking for a threat where the CIA believes it doesn't exist. In other words, he is being opposed because he is on the lookout for potential threats and is willing to question the conventional wisdom to make sure something isn't missed. Where's the problem?
Is It Just Me
So Much For That
Oh well. Congratualtions to the Spurs. They earned the title.
And good luck to the Pistons next season. Two out of three ain't bad.
Thursday, June 23, 2005
I've Seen It
My post on the insurgency wasn't intended to imply some sort of joint US-Zarqawi conspiracy. Rather, it rested on the law of unintended consequences and the potential ability of the Iraqi government to use the situation to their advantage.
Something That's Been Kicking Around in My Head
The only defenses against this are a strong societal belief in limited government and a belief that, given enough time, the government will fulfill its duties. I don't know whether the first has been adequately absorbed into Iraqi society, but it seems to me that the second may well be because of a certain obstacle known as the Al Qaeda-Ba'athist insurgency. The insurgency has no tangible objective beyond killing people and causing chaos. Therefore, they offer no serious alternative to the political order being established in Baghdad. However, they are still a serious problem, and if the new Iraqi government can put it down, it may gain the legitimacy it needs to survive the crises that will inevitably arise in the future.
I Would Play Devil's Advocate
The implication of this ruling is that property rights are rights only as long as the government for them to be so. This runs counter to the idea that rights preceed government and that government exists to secure a just order and safeguard the rights of the people under its authority. It would seem now that instead of deriving from the traditions of society ultimately from God, our rights flow from the government, and what the government giveth, the government can taketh away in the name of some arbitrary "public good".
What is particualrly galling is that any public good that would be derived from New London's exercise of eminent domain in this case is incidental to what is actually being done. The city of New London is taking the property of one group of people and giving it to another, plain and simple. If they were going to build, say a police or fire station, something that serves a direct public service, New London may have a case, but there is no inherent public use here. Instead, the rights of the people have gone out the window so New London can make a quick buck. Disgraceful.
Wednesday, June 22, 2005
Re: Time for a rant
Martha Burk isn't exactly known for intelligent political judgment. Remember Augusta?
Bill Frist and Harry Reid do share another improtant trait: They're both weenies.
A Sense of Proportion
Jay,
My husband was a POW in Vietnam for five-and-a-half years. He is beside
himself over this Gitmo stuff. “Honey glazed chicken!” he says. “What about
moldy bread with rat turds in it?” And “what about nothing but pumpkin for 45
days?” And “what about getting beri-beri from eating nothing but white rice for
months?”“They complain that the air conditioning was turned up?” he says. They made him live in a box outdoors for months, under the summer sun.
“They are put in uncomfortable positions?” he says. He had to sit on a stool for
months, in one position.And so forth.
He is writing a column on this, but he is recovering from surgery so he is slow writing it. The surgery is his second hip replacement; his hip was eaten up by the beri-beri.
Yet nobody’s asked any of the POWs what they think of the Gitmo thing.
Frankly, the whole Gitmo controversy strikes me as being a textbook case of making a mountain out of a mole-hill. Certainly a lot of what goes on there is unpleasant, but unpleasant doesn't equal abuse, and abuse doesn't equal torture. The prisoners there eat better than our own soldiers in the field. They have ample opportunity for exercise, and they are granted a degree of religious deference that goes far beyond common courtesy. I think it speaks well of us that we take a concern for how we treat our enemies once they are in our custody, but at some point, the underlying reality that these are people bound and determined to wage war against the United States has to override our sentimentalities.
It also has to override our concern for our image around the world. The global stage is still very much an Hobbesian jungle, and as much as we might like it to be governed by the rule of law, power, shrewdness, and the willingness to use them still trump all. For better or for worse, in such an environment, the important thing is not being liked, the important thing is being feared and respected. As the War on Terror progresses, strategic, tactical and moral mistakes will be made; there's no way around it. Instead of obsessing over these mistakes and declaring the cause lost, as some are wont to do for a myriad of reasons, we need to acknowledge them, deal with them, and plow ahead. When it's all said and done, we won't be judged by whether we dotted every "i" and crossed every "t"; we'll be judged by whether or not we win. If we win, our image will be bolstered and our security enhanced. On the other hand, if we lose, we will be disgraced no matter how great our concern over thermostats at Gitmo.
I Like the Mony, Mo-mo-mony
On the other hand, I have a significant problem with the amount of corporate, labor, and special interest money in politics because it is a necessary consequence of a government that wields too much power. Furthermore, I suspect that the problem tends to exacerbate itself because politicians of all stripes tend to like the thought of being able to command the loyalties (i.e. money) of powerful entities such as corporations and labor unions, and the more power they command, the more loyalty they can demand.
Pistons/Spurs
Tuesday, June 21, 2005
Since We're Both Online
The topic I'd like to address is one of the underlying issues in the case: the role of corporate money in politics. Is corporate involvement in politics acceptable? If not why? If so, why and to what degree? Do the same principles apply to other groups, such as labor unions and the various lobbying firms and special interest groups?
Fair Enough
Richard Nixon, Jimmy Carter, Gary Hart, Joe Biden, and Michael Dukakis are on a cruise together when the ship hits an iceberg and starts to sink.
Jimmy Carter calls out "Women and children first!"
Nixon says "Screw 'em!"
Gary Hart says "Do you think we have time?"
Joe Biden says "Do you think we have time?"
Dukakis says "Did you hear what Biden just said?"